tv Martin Bashir MSNBC November 8, 2012 4:00pm-5:00pm EST
happen. i don't know if obama and democrats will have the will and the courage to see this through, pressure to fold is going to be enormous over the next two months, but we can lessen that pressure a bit if we stop cranking up the fear about a fiscal cliff that is not a cliff at all. okay. that does it for "the cycle." martin bashir it's all yours. >> thank you. and thank you all. it's thursday, november the 8th, and if you see a republican today, give him a hug because he probably needs it. ♪ >> republicans are trying to figure out how they let it slip away. >> republican party is trying to figure out what went wrong and what changes they need to make. >> didn't entitlement explosion help the president lock up a second term? >> people who want stuff. >> you don't listen to anything i say. >> they're supplying the 50% who have been feeding at the trough. >> i thought the minorities who voted in 2008 would have
disappeared by now. >> getting the female vote, do we become pro-choice? >> you cannot dodge i think the reality that the republican party has a woman problem. >> this victory belongs to you. you did this. >> i want you to know that i will stand up for you. >> four more years of change? >> the people that voted for obama, they voted for popularity. obama ran a popularity campaign. >> do not be petulant, good word today. ♪ ♪ run for your lives >> i'm afraid there is no honeymoon, no time for a break. it's back to work and back to the brink. the president has returned to the white house facing compromise or confrontation to prevent a fiscal crisis. at the end of the year automatic spending cuts and tax increases
are set to go into effect known together as the fiscal cliff. failure to resolve it could prove an act v suicide for the u.s. economy and so yesterday house speaker boehner and senate majority leader harry reid road tested some ideas for r reconciliati reconciliation. >> mr. president, this is your moment. we're ready to be led, not as democrats or republicans, but as americans. >> it's better to dance than to fight. it's better to work together. >> that all sounds pretty promising, but listen a little closer to speaker boehner's call for compromise and then you begin to hear a familiar tune. >> we aren't seeking to impose our will on the president. we're asking him to make good on his balanced approach. the president has called for a balanced approach to the deficit, a combination of spending cuts, increased ed revenues, but a balanced approach isn't balanced if it means higher taxes on small businesses that are the key to getting our economy moving again
and keeping it moving. >> yes, you heard it. it's that same small business melody that we've heard from mitt romney for six years. now, thankfully silenced along with the strains of kid rock's "born free," except, of course, now the lead singer is not romney, it's john boehner. if the speaker didn't get the message of this election, what about the ever erudite commentator and fox news analyst ann coulter. >> if mitt romney cannot win in this economy, then the tipping point has been reached. we have more takers than makers and it's over. >> of course it might equally be said that deriding 47% of the population as feckless freeloaders may be the reason why, as you say, it's now over. let's get right to our panel. here in new york, msnbc political analyst david corn, ana marie cox, correspondent for "the guardian" and msnbc contributor jared bernsteinbern senior fellow and former
economist for vice president joe biden. david, we have had the makers and takers, the moochers and smoochers, the backers and the slackers, the fakers and the bakers but according to miss coulter it's the parasites who won. >> yes. i think if the republican party wants to take her advice, which they have always been so good at and just continue to deride 47%, 48%, 49%, 50%, 51%, 52%, they can do that and not look at the changing demographics. there was a key fact that david axelrod and david plouffe and jim messina reiterated at the last campaign conference call this afternoon, which was that barack obama won 56% of the vote amongst voters who call themselves moderates. not independents, undecideds, but moderates, and they said again and again, this is based in suburban communities throughout the country, and they think that was the turning point
for them. now, those people probably are not a lot of takers and moochers. and so this prescription that ann coulter has, no surprise is wrong, but the republican party has some very difficult questions to answer in the next few years and i think you and i will -- and anna marie and jared will be there to help them. >> although they won't listen. ab na m speaker boehner says she want a balanced approach to easing the debt so long as it does not involve raising taxes on the top earners. doesn't he know only 35% support no new taxes. >> also the statistic they should be looking at from the exit polls was the 81% who said mitt romney didn't identify with the problems of people like them. people who wanted a president that identified with their problems, working class people, people who ann coulter would call takers, want things to change. i believe those people would support a higher taxes on the very wealthy who i think are the real takers in our society.
>> yes. >> after all. also the statistic that is messina and axelrod were laying out, i think they need to redefine a few words and one is mandate. we have a humandate. a lot of other people who weren't white men voted for barack obama and they have things they want and that includes taxes on the very wealthy. >> the republican party doesn't recognize those people you just referred to. jared, isn't speaker boehner simply reiterating the romney tax plan that basically expands revenue with a magic formula of growth and cutting loopholes that no economist as intelligent as you would ever find believable? >> to some extent he is, and one of the things you have to be very wary as your question suggests is any tax plan that bases its revenue projections on the magic asterisk of something called dynamic scoring or supply side growth effects, and that says you cut tax rates and you get big gdp growth rates and, of
course, history has been extremely unkind. what you do get is larger budget deficits and more income inequality. but i want to say one thing. speaker boehner did offer a pin brick of light there that i at least heard, maybe i'm over parsing. he used the word increased revenues. he used the word new revenues and also didn't depend wholly on this magic asterisk of supply side effects. he talked about broadening the tax base. no specifics like romney, but romney was always talking about revenue neutrality. he would never broach the idea of new revenue, increased revenue because that violates grover norquist's pledge. so minute there was a tiny pin brick of light there. >> do you agree with that? i struggle to hear it? >> i heard that, too, and i also sort of look at boehner's history. he is a dealmaker. he's known as a dealmaker. i think he is also a realist who understands that the congress, that his congress is no longer the congress that it was and
that there is a surge of people who want something more from them, from the republicans, who do not want the gridlock that they have insisted upon for the past four years. so i think boehner probably is willing to make a deal. i don't know how far he would reach. >> you also -- boehner and the president had a deal allegedly for $800 billion in new revenue. the question when you're talking about boehner, and ann is right, can he bring along eric cantor and the tea partiers. that's always an open question. >> i was clear when i did that book "showdown" that you were so generous to -- >> it's an excellent book. >> that jared is right. that there was a deal, and that, indeed, if john boehner was left to his own devices and own set of golf clubs, he would have said, yes. but the moderates in his own party came to him and said, you can't sign this because eric cantor is ready to lead the tea party in rebellion with you. the real question isn't just are there the parameters for a deal.
is there a deal that john boehner can make -- >> and sell to his caucus. >> and remain speaker. you have to look at some of the republicans in the senate who signed up with the gang of six plan and whether they can now act like the grown-ups and whip those tea party kindergarteners into some shape at some point. it's a big -- >> it's a big if. >> this was a bad election for the tea party. so there is some incentive for boehner to push back somewhat on that coalition. >> but i still think if you look at the numbers of the house caucus, it's more tea partyish than not. anything he does, he still has to retain the support of half of his caucus. >> it means -- >> very quickly, jared. >> one thing i keep hearing though that goes kind of the other way from this pin brick of light, i have these debates with republicans who say you won, now tell us what you're going to giver me. >> absolutely. brilliant. jared bernstein, david corn,
anana marie cox. thank you all. next, more denial from the right and their shrinking membership. stay with us. >> last night due to the technicality called the constitution barack obama was re-elected president though -- [ cheers and applause ] [ bleep ] you. [ female announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day women's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for women's health concerns as we age. it has more of 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day 50+.
gender changes that this country has undergone. after taking such a beating, are republicans prepared to confront reality or will they carry on whistling in the wind? joining me now from philadelphia is julian epstein, a democratic strategist and in nearby bethlehem, pennsylvania, dr. james peterson, an associate professor at lehigh university and a contributor at he grio.com. on tuesday republicans learned you can't win an election with only 6% of black voters, one-quarter of latinos, and a minority of young voters. so do you hear anything from their party circles today that makes you believe they may have now understood this fact? >> no, but i mean 6% of the black vote for the republican party that was polling at 0% at a certain point in the election might seem like a boon to them. clearly though they have got to rethink their strategy politically in a lot of different ways, martin. i'm also interested in the ways in which the democratic party is
going to actually work with and maximize this new coalition of voters that they've assembled through this election process as well. the republicans have got to keep their hands off of women's bodies. that's in rhetoric and reality. we can't be talking about rape and birth control and even pro-choice and pro-life issues which they lav to talk about. we can't be talking about those things in the runup to elections. that doesn't work for them. they have to change their social conservative policies and think more about more pragmatically about ways they can expand their base with the latino vote. they have to get on this side of the century with respect to immigration reform and the ways they want to talk about race and identify the in american culture. >> no more with delusion more obvious than among house republicans. today we hear eric cantor say house republicans will try to repeal part of the president's affordable care act. i ask you, julian, isn't the
definition of insanity doing the same thing and expecting a different result? >> yes. that's a very apt description here. these guys are like the japanese soldiers in world war ii who hid out in the cave and didn't real identifies the war was over when, in fact, world war ii was over. there was an election a couple nights ago which should have settled these questions. look, this is a republican party that not only lost in the presidential election by an electoral landslide, when florida is counted, the president will have somewhere on the order of i think 336 electoral votes. >> i think closer to 332. >> 332, sorry. >> that math is correct. >> in the senate where everyone expected democrats to lose seats, 2k789s picked up seats. in the house democrats actually won a majority of the popular vote. republicans are losing every single demographic except for white men. they're losing women, losing nonwhite voters, they're losing the youth. this would be a great strategy if you were joe mccarthy in the 1950s running for president. but it's hardly a strategy in
the year 2012. and the fact of the matter that the republican leaders by their rhetoric don't get this, it's like the inmates in charge of the asylum. what the republican party needs to do is look what happened in the easterly lir 1990s with bth w bill clinton who was able to stand up to the extreme left parts of the democratic base and say we are going to move towards the center. we were going to move toward where the american electorate was. the republican leaders right now do not -- they have an interest that is different from the american public. they have an interest that's different from the long-term interests of the republican party. they are catering to the extremists inside the house caucus and this is a recipe for turning them into a permanent minority regional party. >> haley barbour, an ex-governor and former head of the gop spelled out the preferred republican story line on why romney lost on the "today" show today. here is the first part of that
excuse. >> they decided they're going to have this negative personal campaign to try to convince people that romney was a bad person. they didn't attack his policies very much. they said he was a vulture capitalist, that he was a bona fide bureaucrat married to an equestrian. dr. peterson, first the president's camp didn't call romney vulture capitalist, rick perry did. >> exactly. >> second, how does haley barbour say with a straight face that romney was innocent of negative campaign tactics? i seem to recall about 37 lies delivered in about two weeks. >> i mean, again, this is unfathomable and maybe a little bit of a waste of our time. remember, we did address and attack the policies. he just kept changing positions. when we wanted to talk about reproductive rights for women, he want 20d change his position. it's not that people didn't deal with romney on the issues, that's the campaign and pundits
and news media. it was a very, very comprehensive, i think, engagement with what mr. romney was trying to do and what he said his vision was for leading this country. but at the end of the day is what you and julian are talking about, the reason why he loft, demographics is destiny. this country has been changing in demographic for some time ever since clinton made that collection in the democratic party. i don't know if if it was the right one to make, but we have been becoming a much more diverse nation. in that kind of environment, you cannot have a base that shrinks and expect for your party to expand its influence. it doesn't make any mathematical sense. i think eventually those folk who want there to be a republican party are going to have to make some adjustments along some of these demographic and identity lines we have been talking about. >> maybe dr. james peterson and julian epstein could explain this to the republican party. in the meantime, gentlemen, thank you very much indeed. next, oh, where have you gone allen west? a nation turns its lonely eye to you. stay with us. >> so keith ellison is a
communist. >> soledad, you know something -- >> a communist? >> i'm talking about the fact -- >> tammy baldwin is a communist. >> you can call it whatever you want. >> but i want to know what you're calling it. >> i'm talking about their beliefs. i'm calling it this. communist, progressive, marxist, socialist. time for the "your business" entrepreneur of the week. kathleen and susan are encouraging customers to shop local. they created ladies night in the magnolia park area of sur bank, california, to boost sales by staying open late. make sure to support your local retailers on november 24th for the third annual small business saturday. for more, watch "your business" this sunday morning at 7:30 on msnbc. ♪ ♪
[ male announcer ] it started long ago. the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. if you're eligible for medicare, you might know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help pay some of the difference. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and you never need a referral to see a specialist. so don't wait. call now to request a free decision guide to help you understand medicare. and which aarp medicare supplement plan
might work best for you. there's a range to choose from, depending on your needs and your budget. and they all travel with you -- anywhere in the country. best of all, you'll be joining the millions who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. ♪ remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you'll be able to choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. and you never need referrals. so call now to request a free decision guide and learn more. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep dreaming. keep doing. go long.
republicans may not need to look very far to understand why the president won re-election and why democrats increased their majority in the senate. house republicans like allen west, todd akin, and joe walsh all gave very good reasons for why americans should vote against them. mr. walsh repeatedly attacked his opponent for talking about her military service. tammy duckworth lost both legs and part of her right arm while serving in iraq.
she didn't attack mr. walsh, instead, she offered his offer of help. >> it's not about me. this is about the people of this district and if he has services that can help the people of my district, then i'm absolutely going to accept that help because time and again i said this is not about me. it's about our nation. it's about the district. it's about the people i serve. >> nbc's luke russert joins us live from the capital. luke, joe walsh was the first elected member to appear on this broadcast. what finally finished him off? his disgraceful attacks on tommy duck worth, his contempt for the president, hiss abuse of harry reid, his failure to pay child support, his abusive response to constituents? i could go on. what do you think it was? >> well, martin, all politics is local is something we're fond of saying, and the knock on joe walsh was that he was more concerned with his own self-image than he was for the actual constituents in the district. >> you surprise me. why would anyone think that of the great mr. walsh. >> what's interesting if you
talk to high level gop aides, a lot of them are smiling owe every this joe walsh loss because guess what? one less thorn in the side of speaker boehner within his own conference he has to think about and deal with. there weren't a lot of tears at rnc headquarters when joe walsh went down. >> wow, so they're actually celebrating his demise. todd akin is gone having given up his house seat to run for the senate. what about the great allen west? the man who claimed to know of at least 79 communists in the house of representatives. he's not taking his loss too well these days, is he? >> this is fascinating. he's still contesting his election. right now it shows he's down to mr. murphy in florida's 18th district by 2,556 votes. that's above the 0.5% threshold which would trigger an automatic recount in florida. allen west is going to now -- he's now lawyered up and he's trying to sue by claiming that there have been irregularities in st. lucy county, saying the vote count was not conducted
accurately and fairly. so that's still somewhat of a cliff-hanger but it's very surprising because patrick murphy was outspent 4 to 1 by allen west. allen west was a tea party fund-raising machine, and if the current results hold, which for all intents and purposes we believe they will, allen west goes down, that's a trophy buck they will be putting on the wall. >> they're calling like the clubs. i have to ask you about michele bachmann. she managed to pull off a razor thin victory in minnesota, as you know. do you expect her to repeat her call for an investigation into congressional members who she feels may not be american enough? >> well, i don't know if she'll necessarily say that, but rest assured, martin, she will certainly still be a national dynamic force within the republican party. what's interesting about that specific race is i went out there and i covered it. a lot of republicans i spoke to in the district said exactly the same reason of joe walsh, she's put herself too much out in front instead of caring about
the district. if 2k789s had actually spent more money in that district, the dnc, there's a very good chance they could have beaten her. folks did not think it was going to be this close. she was obviously in the fight of her life, about you i'm sure there's some folks in the dnt side saying, wow, if he had done a little more, perhaps we could have taken her out. what really helped her was gay mar raj was on the ballot. >> i think we're all glad she's there is we can enjoy the entertainment. stay with us. the day's "top lines" are coming up. [ male announcer ] this is steve.
he loves risk. but whether he's climbing everest, scuba diving the great barrier reef with sharks, or jumping into the market, he goes with people he trusts, which is why he trades with a company that doesn't nickel and dime him with hidden fees. so he can worry about other things, like what the market is doing and being ready, no matter what happens, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense, from td ameritrade.
campbell's has 24 new soups that will make it drop over, and over again. ♪ from jammin' jerk chicken, to creamy gouda bisque. see what's new from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multi-vitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has more of 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. from the highest peak to the lowest valley, from sea to shining sea, here are today's "top lines." get your hiking boots orch. >> just because we're in the valley one day does not mean we
cannot ascend to the mountaintop the next. >> there was an avalanche on [ bleep ] mountain, ladies and gentlemen. >> what about florida? >> is this just math that you do as a republican to make yourself feel better or is this real? >> well, i'm buried in a mud slide. >> i have news for you, buddy, that ain't mud. >> one of the things we learned, matt, is negative politics works. >> the negative ads went on both sides. >> the previous numbers were the '04 model. >> i thought the minorities who voted in 2008 would have disappeared by now. >> they knew no boundaries when it came to lying and demonizing, slandering, smearing. >> david brooks, whose best claim to fame is drooling over obama's crease in his pants. >> this was math. it was ground game. >> mitt romney would have won last night if he had the same demographics ron 23458d reagan had. >> it was about 35 to about 12 of people whose votes were decided for them by their
ethnicity, their age, or their gender. >> if we're not getting the female vote, do we become pro-choice? >> you cannot dodge the reality that the republican party has a woman problem. >> my wife reports to me regularly that the issue women care about most is the economy. >> what the heck happened last night? >> democratic women candidates had a very good night. ♪ celebrate good times >> this victory belongs to you. ♪ come on >> you did this. >> let's get right to our panel now. msnbc political analyst karen finney is a former communications director for the dnc and krystal ball is my colleague and co-host of "the cycle." they're calling this the year of the woman, but it didn't come a minute too soon, did it? because according to one study, the united states is tied with turkmenistan of 78th in the world in terms of its percentage of women legislators.
so despite what's happened this week, there's a heck of a lot of work to do, isn't there? >> absolutely. 20 women now in the senate. that's record-breaking. previous record was 17 women, but the fact that 20 women is the record is in and of itself pretty astonishing. the one thing i would note to you though is in general, and this is statistically-borne out, when democrats do well across the country, more women get into office. when we had the 2010 republican wave, it was the first time that the number of women in the house of representatives actually went backwards. so now that we have, you know, a democratic really landslide across the country, particularly in the senate, that's why we're seeing historic increases in the number of women senators. >> right. karen, we've just learned that washington has passed its initiative on same-sex marriage. it becomes the ninth state to approve same-sex marriage and the third this week, as you know. so that's an update. on tuesday night we saw the election of five new women senators, as krystal was saying.
when the senate convenes for its next session, there will be 20 female members, the most the body has had. >> yes. >> is that a point for celebration? >> yes. and actually i'm hoping next time, martin, you will play a little aretha franklin r-e-s-p-e-c-t. >> we will. >> because with 20 women in the senate, we actually have a chance at some sanity. i am not kidding you. i think women have really shown, abt patty murray, head of the dscc deserves a tremendous amount of credit as a woman leader getting so many women elected to the senate. so i think it's a very positive thing because i think women in congress, and i'm so sorry we didn't get krystal in there last time, maybe another time we'll get her in there -- >> i have no doubt we will. >> but bringing some sanity and also just women -- women have a different style of leadership. we are more collaborative, and i think despite the right wing flip out we're seeing, one of the clear messages from tuesday night was that people want collaboration. that is not a dirty word.
so i think women will help be a part of that, and i guess the second thing i would say very quickly about the news out of washington state is that's another sign of the way this country and our cultural attitudes are changing and a way that the republicans are completely out of step with this country. >> yeah. krystal, we all remember the original year of the woman back in 1992. >> right. >> that promised a great deal and you've mentioned already the declines, particularly in 2010. what can be done now to ensure that what has happened this week is built upon for the future? >> well, i think we actually may have passed a really critical milestone because when people are looking at these individual senate races, part of what they're saying is, you know, it wasn't just the state they were running in. it wasn't just the year that they were running in. these were -- it was a phenomenal batch of extremely talented candidates. >> it was the fact of the quality of the candidates. >> the candidates themselves were very charismatic, very talented, and they convinced
voters. so in and of itself, i think that's a bit of a psychological barrier, getting past the idea that this sort of subliminal idea that men are better candidates, that they're who people are looking to for leadership, and i wanted to pick up on a point that karen was making about now having 20 women in the senate, having a critical mass. studies have shown on corporate boards, in other bodies, when you get to about a third of women represented, there's really sort of a tipping point in the way that that body operates. so if we could continue inching up to having about a third women in the senate, i think that would really be an important landmark moment for us, too. >> maybe the fiscal cliff would be avoided. karen, four states, hawaii, massachusetts, north dakota, and wisconsin elected women senators for the very first time. the state of new hampshire has elected women to all the major offices. that's never happened before either. in another first, white males will no longer be the majority in the house democratic caucus. i mean, this was really a
phenomenal change, wasn't it? >> it was. i guess do i get to say i told you so? >> you do. >> you better listen to women. the other thing i think we need to talk about is the role of women in this electorate. women actually increased their share as a percentage of the electorate overall overwhelmingly going for barack obama. you can thank us later by the way. not only -- seriously, and i think that particularly given what we have seen over the last year in particular the war on women and the tone of the conversation, i think it's an incredible thing that not only did women come out in force and i hope women continue to come out in force, but also that so many great women candidates were elected. the electorate just was not buying the kind of disrespect that the republicans were selling about women. >> absolutely. final question, krystal, if you had to pick one winner from this week who's emblematic of the change, would it be elizabeth warren or maybe claire mccaskill? >> i might pick heidi heitkamp
in north dakota. that was such a squeaker, not called until yesterday, and she's -- it's a red state. we really didn't think we had a chance to pick that one up, but, again, because she has such a strong and charismatic candidate who really understands her state and the people in her state, so i would say that would be my winner for the week snp. >> karen, who is yours? >> she would be mine as well. >> don't agree with each other. this is far too stupid. if you were men you wouldn't agree with anything. >> we're consensus builders here. >> we'd be off doing something else. but i think the other thing about heidi heitkamp that i think is so important and particularly given what you were talking about the fools and republicans behind me who are thinking they're going to take back parts of obama care, she stood up for obama care in a very tough race and, remember, that was one of the races where they were trying to use the medicare against her. they tried to use the mom strategy, tried to use obama care against her, and she did a phenomenal job really standing up for the importance of women's
health care and, again, in a very red state. i think that's a tremendous sign of progress. >> no doubt. karen finney, krystal ball, thank you so much. next, what does a $50,000 dinner buy you these days? zip, nada, nothing, stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus presents the cold truth. i have a cold... i took dayquil, but i still have a runny nose. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't work on runny noses. what? [ male announcer ] it doesn't have an antihistamine. really? [ male announcer ] really. alka-seltzer plus cold and cough fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a fast acting antihistamine to relieve your runny nose. [ sighs ] thank you! [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh what a relief it is! ♪ i think that's a tremendous sign s for fast, liquid, cold, and flu relief.
♪ ...and copays as low as one dollar... ♪ ...saving on your medicare prescriptions is easy. ♪ so you're free to focus on the things that really matter. call humana at 1-800-808-4003. or go to walmart.com for details. what do you do when you've squandered $325 million of someone else's money? unfortunately, this is the predicament now facing mr. karl rove. the erstwhile wonder boy of republican politics hasn't just been diminished by tuesday's emphatic vote for the president, he's been relegated to the role of party scapegoat. joining us is michael scherer from "time" and politico's chief investigative reporter, ken vogel. you have written a brilliant
story and you say karl rove is holding a conference call today for his biggest super pac donors. he spent $325 million of their money. does he start by singing "sorry seems to be the hardest word"? >> no, he didn't. and he doesn't appear to be sorry. >> remarkable. >> we've seen him a lot on fox news saying the result would have been dramatically worst for republicans had they not spent all that money and there's certainly an argument to be made. >> that's a vote of confidence in their candidate mitt romney. they're saying if they hadn't spent $325 they would have lost even more? >> and they say romney suffered through this very difficult proprapr protracted and bitter primary and had to raise a lot of money sort of in the late spring/early summer, and that he was sort of left exposed at that point and were it not for these outside groups coming in and providing him air cover and really going after president obama, he would have limped into the general election in even worse shape.
as it was, it's arguable and the democrats have already made the case, including the democratic super pac which is dramatically outspent, that the work that they did to attack romney during that period and really frame him as this out of touch plutocrat, as haley barbour famously put, a plutocrat whose wife is a known equestrian, that that is determinative. i think we saw the outside spending cancel itself out but more importantly the power of on the ground organizing. all this money that karl rove spent was on television ads. they reached a point of diminishing returns. this was a turnout election. when donors demand answers, they're going to say why didn't you spend more on turnout and ground activities. why did you just spend this money on ads? >> mike, outside groups spent more in 2012 than they did in the previous 11 election cycles combined. one calculation has karl rove's hit rate at 1%. so did they waste their money? >> you know, this is the real downside of the whole republican
model right now, which is you don't go after small donors and you can build an extra party outside the party structure, outside the candidate structure. it was really -- the super pacs had their heyday in the republican primaries. they had a huge impact on that race. as we got closer to election day, you saw less and less their influence. i think what karl rove and the people behind him who really are the power base in the republican party, the party structure is still small than that extra party structure including crossroads, chamber of congress, the koch operations, they have to look at their whole strategy. they have two years before the next election, how to rebuild a structure that doesn't depend so heavily on outside spending for television ad that is end up being not only less strategically targeted than their opposition but also you're paying a higher rate in many of the races. it wasn't an efficient way of spending their money. >> ken, as you mention in your piece, we did hear from
billionaire uber donor sheldon adelson on election night. he was in norway of all places. take a listen. >> how do you think your money was spent? was it well-spent? >> by paying bills. that's how you spend money. either that or become a jewish husband. you spend a lot of money. >> there you have it. mr. adelson laughs off $70 million. after all forbes estimates his worth i believe at greater than $20 billion. but we also read in politico today that other romney donors and -- >> that's right. i think there is a mix there, and there are folks who believe that karl rove and that the koch brothers operation, americans for prosperity, did spend their money as effectively as they could given the circumstances, and then there are others who really do want answers and who are probably less inclined to give that amount of money again because they think along the lines of what michael was just explaining, that these television ads were really
infective, that this money was ill-spent and could have been spent better. i think we could see two possibilities. we could see something like we saw in 2004 where the big democratic donors gave so much money to try to unseat bush. when they were unsuccessful they basically packed up their checkbooks and went home and still haven't come back off the sidelines. or we could see them doubling it down. i have talked to some donors who told me that they are planning to support rick santorum in 2016. >> good old foster freeze. that's wonderful. karl rove's career as you know better than anyone has had its fair share of ups and downs. there was the victory in 2004 and then the scandal involving valerie plame but has there been a lower point in his career than right now. >> i think he would say the valerie plame scenario was probably lower on a personal
level and the implosion of the bush coalition. i think what you will see now is the donors themselves can now split. there really is disagreement within the donors about what strategic direction to take the republican party. you have the koch brothers, purist embracing of the tea party, the mantra wing. and then you have a more mainstream hedge fund centered donor base which really are pushing more towards like layoff these social issues, let's try to broaden the coalition. i think that's the discussion that's going to happen in the outside of the party class. the outcome of that will have a huge impact on how congress behaves, on how the primary process goes next time, and who vent the republican nominee is in 2016. >> michael scherer and ken vogel, thank you so much. next, let's go inside the white house where the president prepares not just for the next four years, but the next four days. stay with us. a winter wonderland doesn't just happen.
it takes some doing. some coordinating. and a trip to the one place with the new ideas that help us pull it all together. from the things that hang and shine... ...to the things that sparkle and jingle. all while saving the things that go in our wallet. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. right now, get an assortment of martha stewart living ornamen,s free when you purchase select artificial trees. five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ woman ] learn from my story.
the president is back in the white house this afternoon as we begin to hear some breaking news over a confrontation between iranian aircraft and an unmanned u.s. drone. nbc's mike viqueira joins us live from the white house. mike, what is the white house saying about today's report of an iranian jet that fired on a u.s. military drone i believe on november the 1st? >> reporter: november the 1st actually, martin. evidently now we're understanding there were two iran jan jets involved in this incident. the white house is not saying much. they're deferring comment to the pentagon where we have heard from the spokesman there, george little. here are the basic details. for the first time in history an iranian jet has fired on a u.s. military drone, a drone insists the pentagon that was in international waters, not over iranian air space. it did not strike the drone and the president as well as secretary -- i'm sorry secretary panetta and president obama were notified on the morning of november 1st.
evidently this took place at about 4:50 eastern time that morning, martin. >> and, mike, i understand there's some information about the president traveling overseas in the near future. is that right? >> reporter: right. this was a trip that the president had talked about actually an asean meeting. he will be in myanmar, burma, of course, and thailand and cambodia. he'll be making this trip over the course of the third week in november just before thanksgiving. this is a trip that the president had promised to make before the last time he was in the region you recall he goes there virtually every year in the fall for the apec conferences which is an economic conference involving the nations of the pacific rim, martin. >> nbc's mike viqueira. thanks so much for the updates. >> reporter: okay. >> we'll be right back to "clear the air." streaming quotes, any way you want. fully customize it for your trading process -- from thought to trade, on every screen. and all in real time.
but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! it's time now to "clear the air." and the republican party's reaction to the presidential election had us thinking back to the french revolution of 1789.
yes, 1789. because it was said of those aristocrats who survived the mass rebellion that they had learned nothing and forgotten nothing, and those words seem perfectly appropriate for today's republican party because less than two full days since their second routing in a national election and what do we find? >> americans still have more questions than answers about the benghazi terror attack. >> where was he on the night of 9/11? >> the president failed to respond to requests for security. >> in plain english, what happened in benghazi? >> yes, benghazi-gate, the latest attempt to create a diversion from the reality of their own predicament. now, nobody is trying to diminish or discount the horrendous attacks which cost the lives of four highly esteemed diplomats, including an ambassador. investigations are currently ongoing to better understand
what happened and to pursue the killers who were responsible but the republicans still think they can score some points by slandering the administration instead of focusing on their own dire circumstances. it was the same scenario just a few months ago when the chair of the house oversight committee, darrell issa, decided to sue the attorney general for his role in fast and furious. even though it was mr. holder who shot the program down. but once again republicans preferred to create a diversion rather than focusing on their own issues. you see, the fact is this president is only the second democrat since fdr to win re-election. the first, of course, was bill clinton, and his victory was never accepted by republicans who chose instead to focus on his dalliance with an intern called monica lewinsky. they've learned nothing and forgotten nothing.
yesterday speaker boehner said that he and his house colleagues want the president to succeed. great. but if he really means what he said, then he should allow the investigations in benghazi to proceed but keep a lid on mr. issa and not let him turn benghazi into another fast and furious because if he does that, it won't just be the president who succeeds. it will be the republican party, too. thank you so much for watching. remember, you can always follow us on twitter at bashir and on facebook and we've also launched a new show blog at tv.msnbc..com. so do please check that out. chris matthews and "hardball" picks things up right now. all in this together. let's play "hardball." ♪